In Conversation with Sunny M.R.

(00:01) Sunny Mr is a renowned music composer producer sound engineer and live engineer with 20 years of experience he has worked on Bollywood movies including barfi dangal and Ludo and has stood globally with Arijit Singh Sunny has collaborated with artists like Diljit dosanj shalmali and Nikita Gandhi and has won numerous Awards and has earned Praises from the internationally acclaimed music composer welcoming Sunny Mr in his own Studio the court father production thank you for doing this absolutely and for for the humongous body of work that
(00:47) you have uh it's it's a very amazing opportunity for all of our viewers to get you know an opportunity for me when to speak so thank you for doing this and jumping straight to the conversation yeah my first topic of discussion would be is is something that's related to the Integrity of Music and Sound in today's times now you being a musician as well as a music producer as well as an engineer both um I I want you to throw some light on how important it is in today's Times to to integrate the writing process with
(01:33) the sound absolutely I think sound was always relevant it's just that but even if you listen to some Olden recordings these sound really really good even now yes with advancement of Technology obviously everything becoming a digital or job in whatever way we can put it across uh this integration in terms of monitoring or else if you say like just integrating the kind of sound design you want the sound design here doesn't mean sound design for films but sound design for music it is totally it has to totally work hand in hand so in
(02:07) today's time I would say a song is 50 the song itself and 50 the music around it correct and for that music to be integrated in it you obviously need to have some idea of some for sure everything is becoming production heavy and you know we are experimenting much more and more so uh I think this importance is going to increase furthermore as we go ahead and um there's no looking back hundred percent in fact I'd like to add an um rather you know elucidate a few more things around it and I would love to quote uh one case where both of us have
(02:49) worked on a common project which was carrier in 2019 uh and uh it was one unique experience because remember the day you called me and you said that there is some sort of issue in the electronic piano track but then I had to clarify that it was actually the preamp saturation that that and it was deliberate and it was so I think it is also um I'd like to know your thoughts on how perspective based it is to to you know because uh right now the instrumental writing of a song is no more uh about just writing the parts yeah but it's
(03:25) about the intensity with which you play them and and what your signal chain is further and ah in fact why don't you throw some light as on on Harriet as well as the song You produced from uh because the the guitar tones are just amazing they're very it's a very juicy track yeah as far as the production is concerned the writing is concerned and even as far as the sound design is concerned I would I also want you to talk about sound design in music in songs that how it is different from a film sound design and how have you been
(04:01) integrating these things into the into these few known songs a few of the many known songs you've worked on okay absolutely talking about Harriet so as you said perspective uh what happens is like we get a lot I get a lot of tracks from all the other producers to work on and this is one of those tracks and for me I wanted the piano to like shine a little more unless I was like okay uh make the there is a problem with the thing but then you said you know you describe me what you went through what you were thinking at that point of time
(04:31) and then I understood it this is what your perspective and it helped a lot in today's time I don't think so we should limit ourselves which is what you did which is amazing and it was uh kind of an eye opener for me working on that track again that okay this is what he has thought let me see what kind of ideation it brings on the table so all these songs if you see they have this um you know unique sound identity I would say there's a certain shine or a Sparkle whatever you would like to call it as it just depends on like the whole chain
(05:06) right so the chain in today's uh I would specifically say Bollywood music is uh the composer uh composes the song he gives it to a producer multiple producers maybe they all work on it and then it is played to the director the actor the producer there are multiple layers so yes two achieve that is what that main task is they're like you know your uh perception of it then mine then uh pritam does then the director then the producer and I think the day when you can convince all of them is when you achieve the correct
(05:40) otherwise convincing is the hardest part you know uh talking about uh just happened I would say out of chance like you know we are just trying out a lot of things and I wanted to experiment and I found this very nice sample from somewhere which is like an African thing which sounds like a guitar but it is not okay so I took that chopped it and blah blah blah then came the sound design now the sound design here is basically uh it's a very old term when you go into synthesis uh people from who makes synth tones are actually called as sound
(06:13) designers okay so uh it comes from that these days we have been seeing it a lot because pritamtha probably is the only one putting in that credit sound design so it's typically not only limited to since per se but it is also the overall shaping of the track maybe like you said you just started the piano for a certain field maybe I took the guitar I put a Sheen which is usually like electric guitar you cut the highs I pushed it up so I think you know uh the first thing what we all have to remember is don't limit yourself exactly and if you limit
(06:43) yourself then Things Fall Apart for sure exactly in fact uh what I've been experiencing and and the whole analog domain that I've been you know getting more and more deep into and of course because of fellows like you who've been really inspiring all of the other people in the industry to you know buy more gear and all you know so um I think uh it's it's it's uh it's a very beautiful process for me to realize that um committing to certain sounds is uh very crucial yeah now as far as the analog domain is concerned we
(07:26) don't get to commit uh sorry we as far as the software domain is concerned we don't we we are flexible to not commit to a particular EQ today and then we can change it change it tomorrow as far as analog domain is concerned a very beautiful part of it is that I am able to commit to my tone right there if I want a particular uh you know say if if I'm tracking guitars for example while writing so for me writing and Sonic shaping happens hand in hand together and you know because the times are such that we cannot wait for a sound engineer
(08:02) to add a timed delay to create a certain effect absolutely because we are so well equipped in today's times that you know we can immediately shift uh you know a delay to some other delay and change the reverbs to whatever we want within few seconds okay um how do you decide to commit to a particular sound to a particular sounding that if I have for example uh let's say the example of brahmastra like how we worked on the score and for example if we take the srk scene where I had done the basic writing of the score
(08:38) the score was recorded everything and then it was finally sent to you for you know final polishing where you added certain synths and all uh and because we were of course obviously as always on a time crunch what how did you how do you make sure that uh what tone do you have to commit to what is the signal chain that you want to commit to uh I want the I want the viewers to understand this process from you that when you receive an already written piece already produced piece and there are certain embellishments or garnishings that you
(09:11) are supposed to do without disturbing the piece which which uh I think everybody would agree that the score has turned out you know very well and it has been appreciated um and and it is also to emphasize that it's a teamwork you know and and how we work in a Synergy to achieve one product and and it's the end product that matters to all of us uh in that process being as as you are often the last uh coin in the changing where there's immense amount of pressure on you you know how do you first of all tackle that
(09:53) pressure and number two how do you commit to that signal chain how do you make a decision that this is where I want to stand so the thing is it's a little easy for me because I come from the ancient times I've seen the tapes from the Stone Age I've seen the tapes I've seen Hyatt Aid at like I was lucky enough to start at that point of time so there was no option to re uh you know like like as you said adding a Reverb Reverb is recorded that's it you can't change it because your voice is recorded with the Reverb
(10:25) or uh older examples of mughley Azam where lataji had to walk into another room yes to do the uh you know Allah yes sense of commitment I think uh in today's time is lesser because of because of the way we are growing in general but I would consider it as a marriage like if it's a wedding so when you are marrying someone you have to commit to the person you can't be like okay today you know tomorrow that's not correct so for me this that sense of commitment comes like right from day one uh the part where you know
(11:00) you said which you funded or very rightly like you know when a piece of music comes to me and to keep the San sanity of that piece and then adding some embellishments on that uh the thing is that I've always uh if we go back to history what would record producers do uh there's a very thin line between naked places and music producers earlier so record producers would guide the band or whatever to create a certain sound create a certain piece of music maybe they'll say this piece is not sounding nice you guys should try something else
(11:29) or some lines in today's time and most of the engineers were record producers in today's time music producers are same it's just that music produces also in uh you know in big terms program or like you know make the beats they're basically the writers they're basically instrumental writers in India we call the instrumental writers as music producers as music producer so uh it's very important for them to develop develop a sense of sound because I've always told uh that when a product goes from a producer's hand the engineer
(12:00) should not have more than 20 to 30 percent left to do and that 20 to 30 percent also most of the times people have come said what is the difference between this song when you gave because I've done some breakdowns and when Shada makes we can't figure out the difference like it'll take you few years to figure out the difference but I am very happy with what difference you know Saddam has come in and brought on the table uh so similarly when working on the score my first idea is to mix what you have already given
(12:27) and see which places I can just add some things to beautify it there are many pieces of yours many pieces of other people which I have not touched as like no this already sounds as is and because somehow trusts me with that process so it's a little like you know not that difficult for me but I do have to take approvals from so uh when you mix something properly like when you're recording most of the times I've seen people recording it in any balance we are just recording we'll balance it later yes but I think that's a wrong I
(12:58) was about to come to that yeah that's that's totally a wrong approach you balance it properly when you're recording live Rhythm you have to ensure that you're listening to it at the level what your final mix for the gain stage so uh so I think that is where most of the people end up uh I would not say wrong but you know diverting to some other way change the perspective yeah exactly uh the first idea is that mix it and see how much because it's very easy to do over it's very difficult to keep it as minimal as possible yeah I think
(13:32) everything works in hand I think I I would like to add to this uh you know as far as Arrangement is concerned the art of arrangement and writing instrumental music ah is also very inclusive of the balance so so when you are writing an arrangement be it in a in a midi domain or on a staff domain whatever it is I think the basic musical balance gets decided right there it has but cello has to play softer than a viola yeah and the horns have to play at this level or or this with this loudness enough to you know play in unison with the other
(14:10) section so I think the balances get sorted right there and I think you have pointed out it very rightly that uh you know when when people track they ignore the musical balance you know and I think that gives a lot of pain in the post uh and uh secondly with this point I would like to come to a very important question is that when um as as far as and the audiences I want the audiences to the viewers to know this to have a better understanding of it that in today's Times uh where where the technology is um very local very liberal very very
(14:54) flexible and very available adding a Reverb adding a delay is very easy adding compression is very easy and with the people who know their craft who have an understanding of these processings they already send you a well-balanced musically well balanced track I want you to give a hint to the viewers as of as you rightly said that the last 10 20 percent so for example when I am making music I I especially my independent tracks my balance my sound design everything is 80 85 percent there it has to be there what is it that what is it
(15:34) about that last 15 percent that uh a shadab or an Eric or a Hanish what is it that Engineers bring at the end and why is it so crucial that the common people are not like my mom when she hears a song she said and when the mixes and when we are at mixed draft G3 G7 y9 she says so I think but because we are addressing the the aspiring music producers music Engineers who want to be behind the scenes and you know at the creative side of things ah how how would you Summit yeah as of what is that last 15 percent so it's it's again going back to
(16:18) the first corner it's about perspective now you bring something to the table I bring something to the table then there has to be one who has to understand what has been brought to the table and how to improve it so most of the music produces because they are producing the music uh tend to not intentionally but tend to um kind of ignore things like voice vocals shine or vocal reverbs or whatever you call it and most of the engineers this is what they're fixing 90 of the time correct so um uh many times it has happened like especially in this
(16:49) uh I would say uh getting to pretend that is like a very important part of this conversation because he's one of those guys who's who's changed my life in multiple ways there have been times where producers have sent track and because I have been also mixing so I suddenly treat it as a mixing engineer and I have done like a zero D is like pull down everything and then start again and I have given in for me the track is sounding great like wow I brought something completely new and because I'm like you know it's just not the same what I
(17:23) heard because when the producers are executing it that certain balance is what he is liking and if a second stage producer or if the engineer can't maintain it then it defeats the whole purpose so that is where this 10 15 is down because uh working for uh like you know Amit Trivedi specifically they have a set balance at the time of music production they don't want to change it they want to get why these mixes go to G3 Y3 or Z1 yes is because you're trying to keep similar musical balance uh and the vibe of this yes no matter how good
(18:00) you mix no matter how good you produce if the vibe is not sorted it is it is this of no use any music production any mixers and all of you so this is what they are bringing in they are bringing in the engineers are bringing in that 10 15 percent of vocal which you have ignored thinking that my music is sounding great so you know listen I don't know the vocals huh but yeah I'm a good boy so it's just like another perspective to it another person's brain to it it just changes the game completely and it's sometimes it's
(18:29) difficult for a common person to understand it I would say but uh probably they are not able to understand that they are enjoying this food because of it yes yes yes in fact I would like to mention do a special mention for pritamtha here because it has often happened that I have just tweaked the master compressor a bit or maybe change the high shelf of of the master strip or maybe you know changed the vocal level by say a half db01 DB data catches it yeah he just says that the balance is often balance and and I think I think
(19:02) it's something it's it's a gift and just the way you appreciate it I I have mutual feelings on that as of how Dada has actually been very Elemental in shaping Our Lives [Music] [Music]

(00:04) Sunny Mr is a renowned music composer producer sound engineer and live engineer with 20 years of experience he has worked on Bollywood movies including barfi dangal and Ludo and has stood globally with Arijit Singh Sunny has collaborated with artists like Diljit dosanj shalmali and Nikita Gandhi and has won numerous Awards and has earned Praises from the internationally acclaimed music composer coming to the next point is that I want to talk about translation yeah as of uh when because what happens is that every
(00:45) music producer has a have their own set of monitors have their own monitoring I and you know when everything finally comes to your room where which is equipped with our beloved kh310 how important is the and this is a hundred marks question okay so how important so how important is the translation of monitors to you and how Elemental have the KH monitors been you know I would say if you know I've always suggested everyone first thing I've asked them uh how do you produce music how do you mix music and anyone if
(01:34) anyone has ever told me headphones I'm like um get off my friend you know that's the biggest mistake what you're doing monitoring is again just the way we said 50 is tuned 50 is production the same way if more than 50 percent is where monitoring takes over if your monitoring is not to your understanding or the translation is not to your understanding you will never be able to achieve a great mix or a great great production it's not even a hand in hand situation I would say that monitoring takes the top league in in this whole chain like you
(02:11) know no matter how much you have been not just a studio Personnel yeah but you've also been very active uh on front of the house uh for the heartthrob of our nation Arijit Singh and uh is there any relation with because I am sure you must be mixing a lot of these concerts back here uh how how do these three one zeros help you in achieving um um a desirable mix that has been recorded on on public address systems so I'm honestly like you know for Arijit also many people don't know this but I use a Neumann head over there okay so
(02:57) it's uh the kk104s okay Sennheiser wireless system so that has been my choice from day one and I think uh all his microwaves I use like uh multiple microphones on this stage for him for different placements for the upright piano there is one wired kk104 okay um I think most of the times you know in a concert uh because you have the option of live concerts are very forgiving let's be honest uh when it comes to the studio and mixing that it is difficult but for me what has happened is with the help of the Neumann
(03:36) capsules I have been actually uh you know I'm I've captured the vocals and I use on some like you know Norman microphones on some instruments very well okay it has just worked like you know magically it has worked I don't know how it has worked I if you were to ask Miki what did you do to I'm like no I don't know it just happened so the same way um uh when I get into this studio uh I mixed like couple of concerts I have mixed and uh they have translated well somehow you know and they I have no um no specific answer to it how did it
(04:12) happen but because the vocals work everything else Works around it okay okay in like you know we we as a consumer base we are very vocal heavy uh so that way it's like you know [Music] [Music]

(00:00) Sunny MR is a renowned music composer, producer, sound engineer, and live engineer with 20 years of experience. He's worked on Bollywood movies including Barfi, Dangal, and Ludo, and has toured globally with Arijit Singh. Sunny has collaborated with artists like Diljit Dosanjh, Shalmali, and Nikita Gandhi, and has won numerous awards, and has earned praises from the internationally acclaimed music composer MM Keeravani.
(00:38) So, as far as uh processing is concerned, uh we both we we have both the uh domains, which is the analog as well as the software domain. Uh what is it that you like? What is it that you prefer? And what is your take on both of these mediums? Absolutely. So, um you know, uh for me it's like input signal, analog, well recorded with good hardware, good microphone.
(01:09) Mhm. For output, I'm totally in the box. Mhm. Because uh I think I stopped uh using any hardware for mixes in 2012. From 2012 onwards, I was completely in the box because I realized that it's okay to troubleshoot because with analog gear comes troubleshooting as well. So, it's okay to troubleshoot things at the gain staging or you know, capture stage uh than trying to do it later Later.
(01:35) because I had one incident wherein I had I had used like a summing mixer for a mix, and my summing mixer blew off. Mhm. And they didn't have an alternate piece. And the composer was very like you know, glued to that mix. They just wanted a couple of changes, and we had to wait for 10 days Mhm. to actually get another piece of gear.
(01:55) And they you know, you can't own backup of every piece. Correct. Uh the calibrations matter. Each piece sounds different. So, to get rid of all that headache, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to mix everything in the box." But, capturing per se uh I love the analog world, and mixes wise, I love the digital world.
(02:13) There's no uh whether it's saying that today, okay, I'm going and I have a 48 channel console, and suddenly one channel is not working. Or one channel is giving noise, and then the way you have to run through the whole board and check what is happening where. Correct. That pain, I think, is not there in the digital world. I think also we've had a talk about this uh sometime back where Yes.
(02:32) where we where we discussed that, you know, a well captured source is half done uh for the mix because even I prefer that. And don't expect it to magically change in the mix. Exactly. I think I think the whole idea of our discussion was to actually establish that a lot of shaping, lot of balance, lot of mix happens at the production stage.
(02:54) And I think it's the mix engineer nowadays do not shape your sounds. They're not responsible to balance your song. They're not supposed to mix um you know, in terms of So, they can shape it, Yeah. and not change the balance. Yeah. They can shape it in a manner that that the the basic emotion, the basic dynamics, and the the basic sound shaping of of the song doesn't change.
(03:20) And I think that's I think I think it's a it's a more tough era for engineers Yes. because because it's damn difficult to maintain the balance, yet polish it, shine it, make it ready for the DSP so that it's like whether you talk about loudness or just the track being dynamic, I think it's a very difficult uh time for a In fact, I I it it also um peaks my interest in another thing, which is the simulations that we have.
(03:49) Several simulations of EQs, compressors, and everything. Uh have you done ABs and have you come across any postulates that you can share as of up to what extent these software emulations uh, work wonders for you and after what stage should you invest in an actual actual hardware. hardware. So, honestly, I have not done any ABs because the day simulations were like, you know, introduced there is no way to recreate an analog circuitry.
(04:20) You can uh, draw uh, something on your programming software to say that okay, this when this knobs goes this much, this is the kind of EQ which you add to emulate it. Um, I treat it as a different tool altogether. Uh, also a simple example of when I use simulation or uh, of uh, a hardware versus like the EQs or the compressors which the DAWs come with it is if I don't want any color much coloring to happen, then I would use uh, an EQ from the DAW.
(04:50) But if I want some color to be added, then I would use one which is simulated of like, you know, emulated of an analog hardware. And that discussion itself is uh, not not like not an it's a non-ending discussion of whether, you know, it has actually reached there or not. Whether it is not comparing comparing to uh, the hardware if it is not 100% it's fine because they still sound great, you know.
(05:18) They uh, every hardware simulation I've heard emulation I've heard they in today's time including what we discuss about since, they sound great. You use them as a tool and don't compare it with the others. Okay. Okay. Uh, in fact uh, um, you quite a few times you would mention the term color. Color, yeah. Uh, I would like you to tell the listeners explain the listeners what exactly color means.
(05:44) What is this color that we keep talking about? Okay. Color is basically your taste. It's nothing to do with what the software has to offer. But by color, you know, it's It's like you have all the ingredients to cook food. And there is one thing which will combine it all together, which in food would be salt. There's that element, right? If there is no salt in food.
(06:08) So, it depends on how much you want to sprinkle it, what kind of a salt you want, whether you want rock salt, whether you want sea salt, or whatever. It's just a personal taste. And there's no definition of color. It might be for me a certain kind of saturation would sound like a color to me.
(06:27) For someone else, it would be a certain EQ bump would be a color. So, color has no definition. It depends on your taste. very interesting illustration how you've mentioned rock salt and, you know, I'd prefer orchestral or jazz salt. Amazing. I don't think so I have a preference yet. And before I get into the spiral of bad jokes and very bad jokes, thank you so much for joining us and it really means a lot you taking out time for our viewers and you know, and we really enjoyed welcome you welcoming you in your own studio.
(07:09) Which is the most which is which which is an amazing beautiful facility. And thank you for taking out time. No, thank you for having me. I think knowledge being spread is the best we can do. I'm still learning every day from everyone. It It might be like one of the guys who works for me is 2002 born and he will come up with something which I'll be surprised that I could never think of it.
(07:37) So, never stop learning. Yes. Make music, take breaks. Please don't shut yourself in a room and with no light for hours. It might be helpful on that day, but maybe not for life long, you know. So, just take like you know, that's that's another thing which I keep telling people that don't work for more than an hour at a go.
(07:57) Just take a short break and you know, everything. Enjoy the process. That's an amazing suggestion. Don't work more than an hour. Unless you are people like Sunny and me. No, even I take breaks. I have no weight. But thank you for doing this. Thank you so much and looking forward to many more such many more of such conversations.
(08:20) Absolutely, my pleasure. And Shubha Khair. Thank you so much.